Starting and Growing in Charlotte

So you have an idea for a great business but don’t know where to start. How do you incorporate it? Who can you turn to, to avoid those simple mistakes that can happen at the beginning of the process? In this episode of the B2U Podcast, Jim Weiland, Assistant District Director from SCORE, and inventors of The EZ Lift Vest, Cathy, and Michael Foster discuss how to navigate these waters of starting and growing a business in Charlotte, NC. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Hey there, you are listening to the B2U Podcast and I’m your host Vanessa Vaughn Mathews, the founder and chief resilience officer at Asfalis Advisors. The B2U Podcast is brought to you by; a site connecting you with the resources you need to start and run a business in the Charlotte Region. We’re bringing business resources directly to you. We discuss a wide range of topics, like starting and growing a business, navigating government contracts, and how to set your business apart in and around Charlotte. We’re talking with small business experts to get exclusive advice on how to start and run a successful business.

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So you have an idea for a great business, but don’t know where to start. How do you incorporate it? Who can you turn to, to avoid those simple mistakes that can happen at the beginning of the process?  Often times the hardest part is these first steps. To help us navigate these waters, we have Jim Weiland, Assistant District Director from SCORE. SCORE mentors and helps people start small businesses. We’re also talking to two business owners who have benefited from programs like SCORE, inventors of The EZ Lift Vest, Cathy and Michael Foster.

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So Jim, thank you very much for joining our podcast today.

Jim Weiland My pleasure. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews I’m excited to have you. 

Jim Weiland Likewise. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews  So before we get started, can you tell our listeners more about yourself? 

Jim Weiland Yes. My name is Jim Weiland and I’m a long time but now retired individual from the corporate world, and I decided that there was a lot that I knew about business, so I joined an organization called SCORE. SCORE is a not-for-profit organization of former business executives or people who are still in business or own their own businesses, and we do mentoring of startups and small businesses in general, and everything we do is free. We have both face-to-face mentoring and we have workshops. There’s a story I’d like to tell you about those workshops if I could. 

Jim Weiland OK, so before we get into that story, what specifically is your role with SCORE? 

Jim Weiland Interesting question. My specific role today is, I am the assistant district director for SCORE for North Carolina, and we are part of the southeast region of SCORE. There is over 300 chapters of SCORE, and so we say grace over about ten chapters here in North Carolina. My role is to help those chapters with their operations, as well as helping them find resources to help our clients. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Gotcha. So what’s interesting is when I first came up with my idea to start my company, I was living in Savannah, Georgia, and I Googled “SCORE” one day, and I met someone very similar to yourself that had a corporate background but was volunteering, and he actually ran a major consulting firm. So, SCORE actually helped me get started too. So, I appreciate you. 

Jim Weiland Very good. Good. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So what’s this training program that SCORE has? 

Jim Weiland Well, it has a number of things, but the one that we tend to use the most with startups, is a program called “Simple Steps to Starting Your Business”. And you’re going to be talking to Cathy and Michael Foster in a little while. They came to one of our workshops. They came in with limited knowledge of what business was all about — but, Cathy had a product and the product is dynamic and it’s outstanding — and so they went through the workshops, but during the third or fourth workshop (I was the class manager for a series of four workshops), I challenged Cathy and Michael to bring the product in, and you know, the kind of thing “EZ-Lift”, which is the name of their company, okay: What’s this thing going to be? Now, I had an idea, because they had talked about it being not like what I was used to in nursing homes; these big machines, but I wasn’t sure what it was. So they came in, and it was this vest, and Cathy had the vest on. I can’t tell you today what she put on me. I don’t know, but I sat down in the chair and I’m not light. I won’t tell you how heavy I am, and you can’t see how heavy I am…

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews And I won’t ask you *laughing*

Jim Weiland *laughing* …But I’m not light — and then next thing I know, I’m standing up. She’s also got me off the ground. So, it was fantastic. Another mentor who was teaching the class, his name is Michael Jackson. No, not that Michael Jackson. 


Jim Weiland His name is Michael Jackson, and Michael is currently not in Charlotte; he’s in Nashville and has remained in contact with Cathy and Michael — but I’m here as a surrogate working with them as they move forward. Their story is unbelievable. It is truly a small business success story and I’m going to let them tell you all about it. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So I now get the pleasure to be at the table with Cathy and Michael Foster. So, I want to say thank you for joining us today. 

Michael Foster It’s our pleasure. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So Cathy, can you please share with me and our listeners how you got started in entrepreneurship and really what’s your story? 

Cathy Foster My story is, my sister and I both are registered nurses and we were caregivers for our mom, and we were having challenges getting her out of bed and out of a chair without pulling and tugging on her. We knew that wasn’t safe for her and it wasn’t safe for us because of the repetitiveness throughout the day; could cause injury to her as well as to ourselves. And so, we began to just sit at the table and talk about the challenges we were having. And actually, my sister, said, “Well Cathy, I think we should pray about it”. She said a very short prayer. And then she said, “Cathy, I think it should be a vest”. And when she said that, I grabbed a piece of paper and I began to draw what I saw, and that is how our product, The EZ-Lift Vest, came about. And so after we did that, I took it to JoAnn Fabrics, the drawing to JoAnn Fabrics, and I asked one of the salespeople there if they could duplicate what I drew, which they did. And then I took it to my sister, I mailed it to her. She lived in Florida. And she looked at it and she said, I think I can do a little bit better. She took it to a dressmaker and then the dressmaker made it a little bit better with a little bit stronger and better material. And after we got the product back, we began to realize that if it would help our mom, it would help a lot of people who are struggling behind closed doors, trying to help their loved ones, or staff in the hospital trying to help their patients. And that’s how it came about. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Wow. So has mom used it yet? 

Cathy Foster Actually, my mom was about 83 years old at the time. She did have an opportunity to know what we were doing and we were trying to help her, but unfortunately, she had passed prior to it being done and being completed, but the type of woman that she was, we knew that she would want us to continue with what we were doing, because we knew that she would want us to help others as well. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews That’s amazing. Thank you. Thank you. 

Cathy Foster Thank you. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So you’re here with your husband today? 

Cathy Foster Yes. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews I would love to kind of get, you know, where are you now? And then we can talk about the middle stuff and how you got here. But where’s the company now? 

Michael Foster Well, right now, the company is selling products across the United States. We’re having good success. We’re finally into the black. We sell our product in 48 states and we sell it across Canada. We’re seeing about 70 percent growth year-over-year and we’re pretty happy with how things have turned out. Cathy was featured in #31DaysofBiz and so, she got a shout out for that. Over the course of her gaining more notoriety in this product, she was invited up to the board of Medicare, where she presented this product to the board of Medicare, in hopes of getting its own Hicks Picks code, which basically means there is an assigned number from Medicare that supply to that particular device, so that people can get compensated. We weren’t successful in being able to get our own Hicks Picks code, but we did get an ovation that people said, “this is unbelievable”. But they classified it as a medical device; a safety medical device. And that’s where it’s at. We go to various trade shows. I mean, we talk so much to people about these things and we’re starting to see our business just begin to light up. So, we’re pretty happy with where it’s going. And Cathy’s done a marvelous job. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews If I wasn’t on this podcast, I’d be screaming and jumping and giving you high-fives. 

Cathy Foster Yeah, she’s doing well.

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So I have to be honest: Being in Charlotte, there’s always so many conversations about women-owned minority businesses. And, you know, us growing and scaling, and it is an honor to sit in front of you and to hear your story, but to understand how you’ve been able to move barriers, to work together, and to get places where I’m sure you probably never thought. 

Cathy Foster Absolutely not, you’re correct. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews I mean, so, in my eyes, when I look at you I say, “Vanessa, you can do it” and you can do it like it’s, it means something to see somebody who looks like you, and to accomplish it. So, I’m just excited. So, I’m ready to get into it. So, you know, some of our business owners are very early-stage and some of them are more advanced. I want to start with the business plan, you know, how was that process for you? How did you guys create it and what did it do for you? 

Michael Foster Well, the business plan came in several stages: First of all, since Cathy’s got a product that had to be patented, it took us several years. And you say, well, why did it take several years? Because when you have a medical device that looks like that, you most definitely have to have it patented before you begin to take it out into the public eye. So, Cathy worked with the patent office. She got herself an attorney. She did a tremendous amount of work investigating other products to understand what’s out in the marketplace and began to analyze those products — she actually took after she got through making her prototype, she had 10 of those products sewed up and took them to the pines of Sarasota — this is in 2013, I believe, and she conducted a trial; a feasibility trial. Will this product do what it’s supposed to do? And it came through with flying colors, although it did come through with, “hey, you should do this” they put a pocket on it. They wanted a pocket. They wanted different handles in different locations. And so after they got through with that and they made the improvements, the product was in excellent shape. In addition, in a business-plan of this type, you have to have NAICS and SIC codes, and I want to tell you that, what it is, is it kind of says what kind of product this is and NAICS, and we needed it for our business plan. So, we reviewed all of that. We ran freight-analysis at the time. We lived in Memphis, and we started looking at wherever our product is going to be located; you got to ship it to Memphis and then you got to take it from Memphis and ship it out. Well, that would cause excess cost. So when we looked at that, we said, you know, it makes more sense to be located in the area where you’re going to manufacture the cost, because to be honest, we don’t pay any freight getting it from our manufacturer into our home. After we did that, we did our first cut of the business plan. We developed a supplier selection matrix. Here’s what we did, because we didn’t know who would be the best supplier for this product: We looked all across the southeast and we targeted the North Carolina area because it used to be known for all the textiles and clothing manufacturing. We were just hopeful that we would find companies that could make the product. As we looked at for all the suppliers that made these types of products, we narrowed it down to two hundred and forty companies. We did investigations. We narrowed it down to ten, no, down to fourteen. After we did fourteen, we did what we called a request for information. So for those fourteen companies, we sent a request for information. Well, there was nine questions that ask these types of, “hey, do you do this? Do you do that?” We wanted to stay away from international companies because it hadn’t been patented yet and we didn’t want people stealing the idea. After that, we narrowed it down from fourteen to four, and then we came out here and looked around at these four companies, and we went to one company and we actually did not want to go in. It looked so poor, and it almost looked like slave labor. It was old time technology. We pushed that off. One of the companies said, “hey, we don’t do that”. And another company was so high-tech, they were going to nickel and dime you to death. We selected a company down here in Monroe, North Carolina. 

Cathy Foster Can I interject something? 

Michael Foster Sure. 

Cathy Foster Well, I also wanted to let everyone know that, had we not gone through SCORE and met with Jim, and met with Michael Jackson, we may not have been as far as we are right now. So, they were very instrumental, very patient, very kind and helping us do — that’s taking the baby steps and then learning to walk, and now we’re pretty much in a run, and so we really do have to really thank them for being there for us. And at any time we needed them, they were there, and they really took the time to work with us. The classes we took were absolutely wonderful and we learned so much through the experiences they had, their background, their education and all of that. It really made a difference for us in our business and I would encourage anyone who was starting out wanting to start a business, you have an idea, you don’t know where to go; your first place should be to really call SCORE. They will really work with you as long as it takes. They will give you a mentor that will work with you, and it has just been phenomenal for us, and our hats really are off to them because they really helped quite a bit in the success of our business. 

Michael Foster The one thing I would add is, is that once we selected the company in Monroe to make our product, we sold our home, moved here. One day I picked up the newspaper to Cathy’s point and they had these classes downtown, that I said, well, hey, I think it was a couple hundred bucks. We didn’t know nothing about a business. So, we went down there and we brought our book (I think we brought our book) where it gave you step-by-step information on how to, you know, start these businesses. So, after we finished our book, we started selecting our sales and marketing person — that’s from here, Burris Creative, and the SCORE folks taught us from financial perspective to use some of their “break-even analysis”. We used all of that, which gives you information on dollar ranges, profit volume scenarios — and we took and used all of the different models that they had on profitability and how to manage the business. All that was rolled up into the business plan. 

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Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So, let me ask this question, because I don’t think I heard you share this yet. What year did you get started? And that process that you talked through about, the business plan, was that you two or did you have more support? 

Michael Foster It was primarily us pulling it together. It wasn’t as good as it was once we came out here, but it kind of gave us a strong proposal. We worked and we got some software. Gosh, I should know what the name of it is — well, anyway, I’ll think of it in a minute — that was just outstanding software for doing a business plan and it took us four months of following the prompts in the software to come up with a business plan that looked incredibly professional. And after we got connected with Michael, we started setting the price for the product. We used their financial models; we pulled in all the projections that came out of those workbooks and then we used a supply base that we discovered here in North Carolina, and we were off to the races. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Love it. So, can you talk to me about licenses, insurance and legal? Because if I’m understanding you correctly, this really started as a passion to help the mom. Right? And then you dive deeper into it and then you say, “well, there’s a business opportunity here, too”, but you really driven by your heart, right? So, you started to see insurance, legal, you know, what was that experience like for you to kind of navigate that? 

Cathy Foster Well, we knew it was going to be important for us to have insurance for our product because it is a safety product. And so there’s always the possibility of things happening, and we were so fortunate, again, with SCORE that we were able to utilize the resources that they had, and we were able to get a line of credit from the SBA, and so that kind of, you know, kind of helped, us a little bit kind, kind of cushioned things a little bit if it was needed. 

Michael Foster Well, the other things that we were able to do was, as Cathy said about the insurance, we had to get enough insurance in case something happened with the product. 

Cathy Foster Right. 

Michael Foster We already had the attorney that we utilized down in Florida for the patents. I did mention this earlier, but she’s got three patents and a trademark, a fourth one on its way. There’s other products that are in the hopper that are fixing to come. So we had a really good trademark attorney down there, but we started having to find our attorneys up here when it came down to our headquarters down in Bradenton, Florida, and that’s where the administration and sales takes place, and then we as the manufacturing portion of that family were up here. So, we had to have attorneys that helped us with how to connect and how to do the state laws and the state taxes and all that. But it was something that we utilized Michael Jackson for. Michael helped us tremendously. There’s another woman named Lisa Tweedy I think maybe? And she helped us with the distribution piece of it, how to set the prices, because it’s so important — you don’t want to overprice your product or underprice your product, and that’s where we use the SCORE models to help us set the price for the product. And once we got done with that — I need to run a story by you folks: As soon as we got our patent, it came out. We were selling product. We started selling products up here in North Carolina. We got a phone call from our competition out in New York and told us he was going to sue us because we took his family’s product and we were using it as our own and we had to explain to them, “we have two patents on it at this point, so you need to talk to the patent office, you don’t need to talk to us. Our product is patented and trademarked”. But the thing I need to share with you is, is you’ve got to make sure you’re covered legally — that you got the right patents and trademarks — because they’re going to come after you. And we, matter of fact, just recently, we’ve found someone that’s counterfeiting our product up in Detroit? Is it Detroit? Minnesota? Minneapolis?

Cathy Foster Minneapolis.

Michael Foster And we had to send our attorney to talk to him because he said, they’re starting to try to, you know, attack our our good name. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Wow, OK. Well, you always have to have your eyes looking, that’s why I’m in the world of risk. 

Michael Foster There you go. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So, let’s talk about the locations. So, you mentioned that manufacturing is here. There’s an administrative and sales office in Florida. So, it sounds like you’re in multiple states and you already are starting 48 different states, and in Canada. 

Cathy Foster That’s correct. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Can you talk us through how, as a business owner, you’ve got to the place where you said, I need a facility and here’s what I’m looking for in the facility and how you went about that? 

Cathy Foster Well, actually, we don’t. We don’t have a facility, but our partners are my sister and her husband, and so they do the administrative portion there in Florida, and then we do the manufacturing here in Charlotte out of Monroe, and that’s how we did that. 

Michael Foster Well, let me explain this. Having been in corporate-America in procurement, most of the time you do a make-versus-buy analysis to determine, “is that something you want to invest in” to make it yourself versus buy it? And we ran into Lance Dunn, who was competitive with the Asian offshore suppliers. We don’t know anything about sewing. Lance brought technology that I had never seen before, it really came from the military, and his thoughtfulness. He is a M.I.T. graduate, mechanical engineer. His family has been here for over a hundred years and their facility is down the street. We’re like, “hey, we’re real happy”. And he made it at a price that we couldn’t walk away from. 

Cathy Foster And we wanted to make it here in the United States. Mm hmm. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Incredible. Incredible. And so, let’s talk a little bit, too, about — you’ve mentioned a lot of people, including SCORE; this support network. I mean, how did you build your network? How has that process been and what has your network been able to help you with and how have you been able to help your network? 

Michael Foster Well, the only thing I would say relative, the network, Cathy, has done a marvelous job of reaching out to SCORE and the SBA here, and then by going to the various forums and trade shows. Oh my God, we got people calling us we’ve never heard of. Matter of fact, we had someone call us up just the other day wanting this to become part of their distribution network. When you go to these various trade shows, you get all the business cards, you get to meet people. They’re trying to help you. You’re trying to help them. And so, the network is very, very strong outside of Charlotte. We are also probably more popular up in the Raleigh area than we are here because they have a whole lot more caregiver summits, and we went to one in Lillington, Raleigh, and Durham, and there was another one — and so outside of Charlotte, we’ve really tried to cover and get to meet a lot of people that want to help us. From inside Charlotte, it’s the people like SCORE like Michael Jackson — and Lisa is a very big help to us because she’s an expert when it comes to distribution and pricing and working with distribution people and whatnot.

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews OK. That is very, very, very insightful. So, let’s talk a little bit more about the Charlotte community. What’s your thoughts on where you want to play in this community? What’s the impact that you think you guys are going to have here?

Cathy Foster Well, I think that we’re going to be able to really reach more people here in Charlotte. It’s just through the trade shows that we have, you know, here in Charlotte. 

Michael Foster I would also add that in fairness to Charlotte, we haven’t focused as much effort and attention in Charlotte as we have outside of Charlotte, because you’ve got Duke, you’ve got UNC, you’ve got a number of major universities outside of this particular area that seem to be behind a lot of these caregiver summits. Something that you need to understand, that’s playing into this, is the demographics. You may not know that more people are turning 65. I think there’s 10,000 people turning 65 — I think it’s every day in the United States. Matter of fact, our age group is getting bigger than the children that are being born. So this is a huge pool of elderly people that are growing old, and so you have to be in those areas, those circles, where there’s a lot of opportunity and a lot of people that are living. Maybe you don’t know this, but I always thought that there were more elderly-type folks down in Florida because you hear that the snowbirds are down there. There’s far more up in New York and Massachusetts and Pennsylvania. That’s where we sell, far more vests. We do sell a lot in Florida, but up there, there’s a lot of folks that are in those particular categories that just don’t want to move out of their home. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Yeah, well, I think that goes back to the point-of-outlook location, right? You want to be where your customers are. 

Cathy Foster That’s true. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews And if Charlotte’s infrastructure, you know, we’re huge in banking, right? That might not be the best place where you’re going to find the majority of your customers. So, it makes sense to go where they are. 

Michael Foster And we’re finding a lot up in the Raleigh area — and what happened was, we were up in New York a couple of weeks ago because they had the largest caregiver conference up in New York. And I gotta tell you, we talked so much, that things started at 8:00, we were talking to people 7:30 and I was running out. I’m like, “hey, I’m tired of talking”, you know, because people were interested in the product because given some of the financial things happening in our country, people are taking care of their families at home. You know, mom and dad are staying in the house and they need some sort of help to get them out of chairs and out of beds, and there’s a lot of interest out there about the product. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Absolutely. So, if you want a major jump start on your journey to opening a business, please head over to Charlotte Business Resources. This has been very, very insightful. Is there anything else you guys would like to share with our listeners before we wrap up today?

Michael Foster Cathy is very resilient. She works very, very hard. There’s a lot of times when I’m a call it a “dry spell”. You know, it didn’t look like this three years ago, but she didn’t give up her family and sisters and whatnot, didn’t give up, and I would tell people that if you’ve got a great idea, you’ve got to understand it’s going to cost some money. I was talking to my brother in law today and asked him how much money have we invested in this business since we started getting into it in 2012 or 2013? And we come up with a number of one hundred fifty thousand dollars. So there’s cost. There’s being driven. There’s not getting discouraged. A lot of prayer goes into this, and it’s getting out and telling the story. And when you have something that people haven’t seen before, like this, you got to understand the market doesn’t just run and jump at your door. So you’ve got to go jumping at the market’s door. So, you got to be resilient and you just can not give up, and you just got to believe that one day the door is going to open and the door is opening for us. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Yeah, well, one thing I will share observing you two is, I think the support system is very important. I’m a business owner myself and my husband is extremely supportive and he creates the runway so that I can take the time to be an entrepreneur, and so I think it is very important, as I’m a young married couple, to watch you in-action and to hear how you compliment your wife and what you see in her. I think it’s phenomenal. 

Cathy Foster Thank you. Well, he’s really been a big help in our business. And he was pretty much the one who kind of laid the foundation as far as the business plan and how we should go about our business with the help of SCORE as well. 

Cathy Foster And like he said, I’d like to piggyback off of what he said regarding if you do have an idea, continue with your idea. Do not get discouraged. Like you said, there will be times when it just doesn’t seem like things are moving, but just stay planted, stay focused, and just continue working on it. It will come through. I spoke with our patent attorney and when we started this process she made me actually write the first patent. I had no idea how to do it. And I did the best I could. And then when she saw that, I was serious about doing it, when we gave it to her, she says, well, I had you do that because so many when I have them do that, they get discouraged. And they just give up — and their idea, they give up on trying. And when I saw that you and your sister were willing to put in the effort, then I knew that you were serious about what you were, what your product was, and what your invention was. So, I would encourage people just keep going and it will really work out for you. 

Michael Foster, I would just like to say one last thing, and I promise. Michael Jackson was a — he came from Mercedes Benz trucks. I think he was a CEO for them and Michael’s a driven guy, and you got to have someone who’s going to kick you in the butt, because sometimes you do get stuck, and you’ve got to have someone that’s as interested in your passion and product and your desire as you are, and I would just say that — get someone in your corner that’s going to motivate you to step up and step out because if you don’t do that, then it’s easy to fall back into complacency and not push yourself further, and as far as you can go — and Michael is really good about that. And, you know, we had a lot of fun. He’s a good guy. I hope the best for him. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews I love that. So, in terms of social media and website handles, or phone numbers if people are interested to learn more about you or your product, where can they find you? 

Cathy Foster They could go to our email address is and our website is 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews Right. And I have a souvenir. Can you explain what this is, our listeners? 

Cathy Foster Yes, that is called a shammy, and we used that during our trade shows as giveaways. And the thing that we like about it, it was created by our manufacturer, Dunn Manufacturing — and it is a very durable, shammy. You can use it for absolutely anything, whether it’s wiping your child’s nose or cleaning your eyeglasses, or your windshield, whatever the need is, it’s there for that use. And the good thing about it is that you can wash it forever and it will still come out looking just like that; like it’s brand new. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So a key-thing that she didn’t say that Jim made a reference to give her SCORE mentor was “Do Everything with Love”, which I thought about Southwest Airlines when I heard that. So, where did this come from? 

Cathy Foster Well, it came from the fact that when you’re a caregiver, sometimes you’re doing this alone in your home behind closed doors, and a lot of times it is a struggle, and even though sometimes you have the best intentions, your heart is in it. You’re trying to do your best. There are times when you just really become overwhelmed, and you become very tired, and I wanted the caregivers to know that what they are doing is so important and that even if their loved one or family member does not express that to them, they do know it’s important. They do appreciate it — and to just try to keep your stress level down, and just do everything with love and care for them with love, and I think when they think of that, that will help them remember that, you know, they’re doing it for a reason, a good reason, and that they’re doing it from the love of their hearts… 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews So business owners, I hope you learned as much today that I did. There’s so many takeaways that I have. The best thing that I think came out of today’s session for me is, not to give up and to do the work, but make sure that you surround yourself with really good people, and it should come from your heart…

Cathy Foster Yes. 

Vanessa Vaughn Mathews …And just really having the desire to serve. So just think about that.

So, for exclusive interviews with small business professionals, make sure to subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts, or at and if you liked today’s show, please rate and review us. If you have any questions or topics or suggestions, send in your requests at CBRbiz on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. Again, I am your host, Vanessa Vaughn Mathews, and thanks again for listening to the CBR B2U Podcast

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